Decade charts scoring system - Suggestions

albummaster

Janitor

Gender: Male

Location: Spain

Site Admin

revolver94 wrote:

Regardless of reason, maybe you could do this: have the decades charts only have up to 10 points be added per chart (for the #1 entry). This would create decimal places, but it allows for their to be a subtle difference created by the decades charts. (For year, it could go up to 1 point, since it is only 1 year).

I quite like the idea behind this but I think, over time, it could lead to bias towards 'popular' decades (probably the 2000s since this is the most recent completed decade).

Fergenaprido wrote:

I personally don't see a problem if an album is ranked higher than another in the overall BEA chart, but lower in the decade BEA chart: It could be that one album is better in general, while the second more strongly typifies that particular decade, and so would show more prominently on individual charts devoted to that decade. I see the same thing occurring if/when year and genre charts are introduced.

It's interesting to hear that view. If that's the case then maybe option 3 or 4 might the way to go after all?

Fergenaprido wrote:

A user's overall chart ranking would affect the score for an album on the overall BEA chart as well as all applicable BEA subcharts, unless that user has also created that specific subchart. I think this is what joyofdivision proposed, but I'm not sure.

The only cause for potential chaos with joy's proposal that I see would be what to do with albums that make a user's overall chart, but fail to make that user's decade chart. <snip> Should my overall ranking for Rumours still count for the decade BEA chart even if it is not on my own decade chart?

I think option 3 is very similar (& a lot simpler) than option 4. All your charts 'count' and it's easy to understand. I guess the only concern is the possibility of gaming, but that exists now anyway. I don't have a problem with the same album appearing in your overall, decade and year list (you'd expect it). Option 4 might be a bit too complicated in practice and there are a few issues where if an album appears in your decade chart but not in your year chart (and vice versa), it might be too difficult to understand (plus the issue that Fergenaprido mentioned).

GARY

O.K. 3 it is then right Very Happy

LET'S DO THIS

Applause

_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Fergenaprido

Gender: Male

Location: GTA

albummaster wrote:

I think option 3 is very similar (& a lot simpler) than option 4.

Just to make sure I understand, then; For option 3, when year charts are introduced, then an album's score from all overall, decade, and year charts will influence its ranking on the BEA year chart, but the album's score for a year chart will not affect its ranking on the BEA overall or decade charts, right?

albummaster

Janitor

Gender: Male

Location: Spain

Site Admin

Fergenaprido wrote:

albummaster wrote:

I think option 3 is very similar (& a lot simpler) than option 4.

Just to make sure I understand, then; For option 3, when year charts are introduced, then an album's score from all overall, decade, and year charts will influence its ranking on the BEA year chart, but the album's score for a year chart will not affect its ranking on the BEA overall or decade charts, right?

Yes, that's right:

Overall charts count towards combined overall, decade and year charts.
Decade charts count towards combined decade and year charts.
Year charts (when introduced) will count towards combined year charts.

(Basically, no 'sub-chart' can affect anything above it in the hierarchy. Everything filters downwards.).

This means all existing 'greatest album' charts continue to contribute as they are now (the current rankings will not be affected). However, once decade charts are added, they will have the ability to influence the decade and year rankings.

Plus, the advantage of option 3 is that it can be easily applied (in the future) to additional types of chart (e.g. genre charts, or charts by country etc) e.g. a 'R&B' chart could count toward the combined genre chart for 'R&B' without affecting the overall or year/decade positions.

joyofdivision

I don't agree that a user could have (for instance) In The Aeroplane Over The Sea as best overall album, best album of the 1990's and best album of 1998, giving it 500 overall site points from the one user. It really doesn't seem right to me at all.

The points should be 100 for the overall chart (as it is now),
100 for the decade chart (not 200 from 2 separate user charts as it would be for Option 3)
100 for the year chart (not 300 from 3 separate user charts as it would be once year charts are introduced)

Do you all understand what I am getting at? Once a user has created decade charts, all of the allocated points awarded to albums from their overall chart should be removed from the decade and year rankings, in favour of the points accrued from their decade and year charts.
d'oh!

Last edited by joyofdivision on 11/11/2011 16:46; edited 1 time in total

RFNAPLES

Level 8

Gender: Male

Age: 75

Location: Durham, NC, USA

agree
_________________
Top 100 Greatest Music Albums by RFNAPLES
Bubbling Under The Top 100 Greatest Mus...y RFNAPLES

Fergenaprido

Gender: Male

Location: GTA

joyofdivision wrote:

I don't agree that a user could have (for instance) In The Aeroplane Over The Sea as best overall album, best album of the 1990's and best album of 1998, giving it 500 overall site points from the one user. It really doesn't seem right to me at all.

The points should be 100 for the overall chart (as it is now),
100 for the decade chart (not 200 from 2 separate user charts as it would be for Option 3)
100 for the year chart (not 300 from 3 separate user charts as it would be once year charts are introduced)

Do you all understand what I am getting at? Once a user has created decade charts, all of the allocated points awarded to albums from their overall chart should be removed from the decade and year rankings, in favour of the points accrued from their decade and year charts.
d'oh!

I do agree, but then how do you resolve the issue I mentioned before, where an album appears on an individual's overall chart, but not on their respective decade or year chart? I think figuring out the coding might be a bit tedious for what albummaster is aiming for with his intentions. If someone can figure out a simple solution for this, then I'm all for your suggestion joyofdivision. Smile

joyofdivision

Once a user has added decade or year charts, their overall chart points should only count towards the overall chart. If they decide not to include an album in their decade charts that was also on their overall chart, then only the decade charts should reflect their choice to omit that particular album from their decade list.

It's up to albummaster anyway, and he deserves a lot of credit for introducing the new extra user charts and for all the other hard work he continues to do behind the scenes in continuously improving the site Very Happy

albummaster

Janitor

Gender: Male

Location: Spain

Site Admin

joyofdivision wrote:

I don't agree that a user could have (for instance) In The Aeroplane Over The Sea as best overall album, best album of the 1990's and best album of 1998, giving it 500 overall site points from the one user. It really doesn't seem right to me at all.

Only 100 points would go to the overall chart, 200 to the decade and 300 to the year. The overall chart doesn't change.

Decade charts are the biggest change to the site in a long time, and it's important to get right as it will have a big impact on the site going forwards. Right at the outset, the two key objectives for the scoring system were simplicity and extensibility. If I was totally happy with option 3, I'd have put it live already, and probably without having this conversation. Something doesn't seem 100% right with it, but at the moment, it does seem (to me) the best compromise.

joyofdivision wrote:

Do you all understand what I am getting at?

Yes, but you have to admit, it is quite complicated in certain areas. People will need to keep track of which albums they've added in which chart to understand how their selections are impacting the scoring. It will also be difficult for casual surfers glancing at the site to work out what is happening. A lot of traffic lands directly from Google. A first time visitor doesn't want to think too hard about what they are looking at.

Also, a thing that concerns me is how option 4 might work when year charts are added, and possibly genres (next year), and after that, who knows, maybe people could add a chart such as 'best rock albums of 1965'. I think option 4 might struggle to cope with those types of scenario (whereas option 3 wouldn't). I'm not sure where the site is going longer term, but I think it's definitely of benefit to have a scoring system that is extensible enough to cope with most eventualities.

Fergenaprido wrote:

I think figuring out the coding might be a bit tedious for what albummaster is aiming for with his intentions.

To be honest. I don't mind how tedious the programming is, so long as the system works for everyone and meets the objectives. Once the best solution has been identified, I'd be very keen to crack on with it and get it done.

joyofdivision

I think that when year charts are added, the points from that chart should be the ones that count towards that year from that particular user. As for genre charts, they shouldn't count towards any other chart because it would be too complicated for us all to agree on which genres a particular album should fit into. I'm sure people will just be happy to publish their (genre) lists without them contributing to any overall charts.