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- #1
- Posted: 06/22/2010 03:23
- Post subject: This site is awesome but....
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I have been thinking about trying to make a site like this and just stumbled across this today. Compiling these lists is always fun and makes for good discussion.
My main problem with the lists is the lack of diversity in both musical styles and in country of origin. Obviously most of us are probably Americans or British but it would be fun to see an attempt to list more music from different genres and countries. I don't know the best way to do this on the site other than maybe incorporating major lists that focus more on maybe jazz or rap.
Is anyone else aware of lists like that or just frustrated that out of the top 50 albums of all-time include no groups outside of the us or england and only 1 (miles davis) outside of rock?
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40footwolf
Gender: Male
Age: 33
- #2
- Posted: 06/22/2010 06:07
- Post subject:
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I don't really know-this website attracts a pretty specific type of user, largely Generation Xers that have deep worship for "canonically" great music. They aren't the loudest in terms of forum posts, but in terms of chart makeup they are the vast majority, it seems.
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.
-John Cassavettes
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cartoken
The Seer
Gender: Male
Age: 40
Location: Paris 
- #3
- Posted: 06/22/2010 09:44
- Post subject:
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is it jazz or rap that you call adding diversity !? what a joke !
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40footwolf
Gender: Male
Age: 33
- #4
- Posted: 06/22/2010 10:12
- Post subject:
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| cartoken wrote: | | is it jazz or rap that you call adding diversity !? what a joke ! |
What's wrong with jazz and rap?
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.
-John Cassavettes
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Richie Hunt
Gender: Male
Age: 111
- #5
- Posted: 06/22/2010 10:20
- Post subject:
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I know what you are saying, but why cant the best music be made in the US & UK? Maybe that's just the way it is...
'rateyourmusic.com' rates/ranks music seemingly with less regard of the country of origin and genre - if you havent checked it out already you probably should.
I wonder if as the US economy loses its dominance of the globe and Europe struggles if this will impact music in the sense of the nationality of the bands? Maybe China could significantly increase their contribution to music since they are expected to become the largest producer of goods in several years time taking over the US.
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cartoken
The Seer
Gender: Male
Age: 40
Location: Paris
- #6
- Posted: 06/22/2010 11:15
- Post subject:
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| 40footwolf wrote: | | cartoken wrote: | | is it jazz or rap that you call adding diversity !? what a joke ! |
What's wrong with jazz and rap? |
i'm not saying that jazz and Rap are not good style. i have several rap albums in my chart and i love jazz too. actually when i started reading his post i founded it interesting i thought that he wanted to included more styles from the world (european, african asian ...etc), and non english albums... but he concluded in saying including rap and jazz, both mainstream styles and like usual, american ones (like 98% of the music styles in this website). i don't call that trying to be more worldwide ! but another rap fan who is frustrated to see the predominance of rock !
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- #7
- Posted: 06/22/2010 16:42
- Post subject:
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haha while I would admit that I am a fan of jazz and rap... i don't quite get why those music forms are considered second rate to 70's rock. As a rap fan I understand why some see it as inferior, but it undoubtedly means a lot to those who listen to it who grew up in a different environment and see the world in a different light. People who probably wouldn't and couldn't relate to The Beatles but find meaning in songs by Jay-Z. I think Jay-Z's string of bestselling albums is testament to that.
I don't have so much of a problem with the member's polls but rather with the "official polls" of publications such as rolling stone where there is an obvious bias towards 60's and 70's rock. One of the qualifications of a "recognised chart" on this site says "3. The chart is not limited to a particular music genre," yet every one of the official charts considers The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Smiths, Radiohead, and Nirvana as the pinnacle of music. All, at least to a rap, soul, and jazz fan, very similar types of music. To me if you are going to make a "best albums" of all time list and barely consider albums of other genres you might as well be straightforward from the beginning and state your list is specifically for Rock music.
As far as more worldly participation, I guess I could have provided some examples there as well. I am predominantly a rap fan but I enjoy music from Latin America as well. What about samba and bossa nova from Brazil, Tango from Argentina, Bachata, Salsa, Cumbia? I wouldn't consider myself an expert on Asian music but it would be interesting to try and include classics from China, South Korea, Japan. Sitar music from India. How about Fela Kuti or other classic African musicians?
I do see the importance of these rock albums but it is clear that these albums are the albums that are most important to Americans and British listeners of a certain age and musical taste. I think it would be fun if we could put together an effort more representative of different musical tastes from different nationalities and viewpoints.
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Mr. Shankly
Gender: Male
Age: 52
Location: Auburn, Washington 
- #8
- Posted: 06/22/2010 17:10
- Post subject:
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| gptp20 wrote: |
To me if you are going to make a "best albums" of all time list and barely consider albums of other genres you might as well be straightforward from the beginning and state your list is specifically for Rock music.
As far as more worldly participation, I guess I could have provided some examples there as well. I am predominantly a rap fan but I enjoy music from Latin America as well. What about samba and bossa nova from Brazil, Tango from Argentina, Bachata, Salsa, Cumbia? I wouldn't consider myself an expert on Asian music but it would be interesting to try and include classics from China, South Korea, Japan. Sitar music from India. How about Fela Kuti or other classic African musicians?
I do see the importance of these rock albums but it is clear that these albums are the albums that are most important to Americans and British listeners of a certain age and musical taste. I think it would be fun if we could put together an effort more representative of different musical tastes from different nationalities and viewpoints. |
You make some interesting points. As far as rap goes, you have to keep in mind that rap has only been in the mainstream since the late 70's, so rock has about a 20 year head start. I know Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions is usually on those lists along with Tribe Called Quest's Low End Theory and NWA's Straight Outta Compton, but more could stand to be recognized. The "official" lists usually come from publications with predominantly baby boomer and generation X staffs. Rolling Stone is a great example. That might be why.
There are two reasons why I think the music list don't represent the global village yet: The most obvious is language and cultural difference. The other has to do with accessibility and what's promoted and made widespread in a given country. Although the internet certainly helps with accessibility. That is, if you want to find samba music or music from China. It's easy to find. But the average person might not seek it out, unless they hear it somewhere first or a friend recommends it to them. There are members on this site though that have albums outside the cultural mainstream. I know bossa nova is appreciated by a bunch of people. Also, there was a poll a while back about music with lyrics in another language. Most members said that they occasionally listen to it and enjoy it.
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alovesupreme
Gender: Male
Age: 35
Location: Florida
- #9
- Posted: 06/25/2010 01:13
- Post subject:
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Rap hasn't been mainstream since the late 70's....it didn't exist until the late 70's. it didn't come of age until the early 90's. It wasn't until "pop" rap like MC Hammer that it really was recognized by the general public.
and yes, there is a serious lack of diversity. but that's not a problem with just this site. it's an issue with music criticism in general.
like the other poster said, rateyourmusic will have more jazz but it will basically be only davis, coltrane and mingus so it won't really be a fair representation.
jazz is a bit intimidating to those who mostly listen to rock and pop. it helps (but isn't necessary) to have a knowledge of music theory and composition and it's mostly instrumental and difficult to tell the difference between stuff and understand why its so good. the pieces are generally longer too.
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- #10
- Posted: 06/25/2010 04:24
- Post subject:
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exactly and I didn't mean to come here and criticize this site because I think this site is really cool... and kind of prefer it to rate your music
I agree that music criticism is very focused on rock and there are obviously many reasons for that. Maybe more than anything I hoped maybe there could be an effort at this site to aggregate some lists that could be inclusive of other styles and could create a better list more representative
Obviously music is subjective but creating these lists is really fun and makes for good discussion. However for once I would love to see a list that doesn't include 3-4 Beatles albums in the top 10. They undoubtedly had a profound impact but... there are so many other classics from other styles
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