Your Rating Criteria

[joannajewsom]

[RFNAPLES]

[Elston]

I probably don't spend enough time rating charts, but what I do is take a quick glance and see if they have music that I like. The rating depends on how much music on their chart I like. If they have a lot of music I haven't heard I don't rate them at all, as I certainly couldn't give an accurate rating on the choices they have made (even if their chart looks in very different tastes as mine).

[RFNAPLES]

I agree it is better to withold a rating when you are unfamiliar with many of the chart's titles than to assume they must be bad and assign a low uniformed rating.
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Top 100 Greatest Music Albums by RFNAPLES
Bubbling Under The Top 100 Greatest Mus...y RFNAPLES

[joannajewsom]

Naples, your opinion does not "happen to coincide" with the public. Your "opinion" on what is great is based on the opinion of the public and critics. Big difference. It's like the RIAA saying their billboard rankings "happen to coincide" with how many albums were purchased. No. Your chart is based on the opinions of others (society), so don't for a second make any claim of expressing independent thought through your chart.

You've already said yourself greatness is a societal determination, i.e. your "opinion" on what is great does not exist and can not exist on its own, since we do not have the authority as individuals to deem what is great. This is all by your definition of greatness. So how can an opinion that you have deemed yourself incapable of possessing coincide with anything? "Happening to coincide" would be a case where your favorites coincide with those albums deemed great (popular, according to you) by society. Make a list of your favorites, and we'll see how much your taste does "happen to coincide."

Here's the thing: whether you have listened to 300 or 3000s cds, your chart would look the same, b/c it's based on what society thinks. Given your definition of greatness, one doesn't need to listen to music to even make a "greatest" chart. All one needs to know is what the public and critics think in order to make a chart that reflects that. We talked about this in other threads. All that cd listening is pointless when it comes determining what is great, since to do so you merely need to consult public opinion. Listen to 3000 more CDs and your "opinion" will be exactly the same as long as society's opinion is the same.


Hahaha. Okay, since you want to take the movie theater scenario so literally (I guess you do not possess the brainpower to process language in any other way), let's say you just finished watching a movie for the first time, in whatever context you do such a thing. A friend calls you and asks if it was great? Do you say yes, no, or consult the internet to gather the opinions of others? Given your definition of greatness, you would have to do the latter to truly answer whether it was great or not. That is abnormal behavior, as all sane people would give a yes or no and actually express an individually formed opinion.

[RFNAPLES]

I am glad that you are so all-knowing that you have the audacity to think you can tell me how I form my opinions. I am sorry that you are so distressed by my floccinaucinihilipilification of your opinions but I don't hold to your anti-authority complex.

Yes we can each attempt to interpret what the greatest albums are for there is no one authority on same. The albums so included are often the same but with varying ranks.

As I mentioned to you in a previous forum post, I see favorite albums charts as often varying from greatest albums charts. I see a difference between the two words. As I have pointed out before, my father was my favorite golfer yet he was never the greatest golfer, not even in his opinion. My favorite rock group is The Kinks but not one of their albums appears on my Top 50 Greatest Albums of All Time chart. Their albums are all among my favorites but are not in the top 50 greatest of all time!

Actually I would not choose to argue over a friend’s improper use of the word great when applied extemporaneously to a just viewed movie. I would probably give him my feelings about the movie but would withhold judgment of its greatness to allow passage of time and contemplation.

BTW, RIAA and Billboard are not the same.
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Top 100 Greatest Music Albums by RFNAPLES
Bubbling Under The Top 100 Greatest Mus...y RFNAPLES

[joannajewsom]

Well, you've already given everyone a pretty good idea of how you come up with your chart- it's based on what society deems as great-- so this 'audacity' claim is baseless. What? How dare I restate what you've already told me? Right...It's not an anti-authority complex, it's more of an valuing my individual opinion thing. You, on other hand, have a clear appeal to authority and popularity complex. There's no other way to look at it.

Now, I'm clear on the difference between the two words. However, this analogy with your father being your favorite golfer is a big pile of rubbish that does not apply to comparing bands, and I'll tell you why. In setting up this analogy, you have purposely picked someone who is, I'm assuming, not a professional golfer by any means, in no way in the same league as a professional golfer (in more ways than one), and being an amateur, according to your implication, is not going to be as skilled as any professional golfer. So, there's already a certain superiority in skill that is implied, and that is the real reason why no amateur would be considered greater than a pro-- this is part of the reason why your father would never consider himself one of the greatest, because when thinking of the greatest in anything, they always discuss professionals. You also purposely picked your father, someone to whom I assume you have some affection for, which would obviously have something to do with him being your favorite.

This analogy can not apply to something like a comparison of the Kinks (your favorite) and the Beatles (I'm assuming whom you feel to be the greatest). The Kinks, like the Beatles, were a band of professional musicians, not amateurs like your father (point 1 where your analogy fails!).
The Kinks' and the Beatles' musical talent are actually comparable, and there are some people who would argue that the Kinks were more skilled in some aspects. So the difference in skill level implied by comparing your dad to a pro is not valid (point 2 where your analogy fails).
Music is not as competitive as something like golf, but your father and a pro are not in any in competition, and a pro is clearly on a superior level. The Beatles and the Kinks, however, were contemporaries and definitely in the same league as each other. Your analogy just doesn't apply here.
The Kinks are very much comparable to the Beatles, unlike your dad and some pro. Your analogy fails.

"Actually I would not choose to argue over a friend’s improper use of the word great"

Here's your problem: there's more than one usage of the term. Just because he doesn't use it in the way that you do, does not make it improper. In fact, in that context, your usage would be improper, since his query was an obvious attempt to find out your personal opinion on the film's quality and value. When people say, "hey, wasn't that movie great?" they are obviously referring to a usage of the term that is not what you seem to be referring to. Geez, do you actually interact with people in real life? Check any dictionary and you will find different definitions of great. It's your job to decided which usage is being applied when you encounter it in conversation. This is Human Interaction 101, and it seems as if you were left back that year.

"to allow passage of time and contemplation."
Basically, you need to allow time for the critics to make their best of lists to see where the film comes in, and you need to contemplate others' opinion on the film. Don't try to word it as if your actually developing an independent opinion.

Sorry, I was using billboard in a generic way, like kleenex. My point still stands.

[videoheadcleaner]

Wow, opened a can of worms or old wounds or whatever cliche you wish.

Seems that a similarity to your own taste is the concensus so far. But interesting to hear that diversity is one that defines if a list is rated highly. Howver, I have countless albums physically and digitally that are diverse from 80s new wave to 2000s hip hop to 60s folk to 90s grunge. However, my list comprises of many 2000s alternrock or indie albums and minimal from other decades. So does that mean it is narrowminded or that I have secured what I like in my music.

I have listened to Velvet Underground, Beatles and Led Zeppelin and even own some of the albums, but my favourites differ from those albums regarded as greats. My music taste in listening may be diverse, but my list is the pinnacle of that listening.

My list at this point of time is rated 53 / 100 from 22 votes. This means it just sits in the top 100 of the member charts. However, when I look at the lists in the top 10 or so, my rating for those charts is between 50 to 75, because of my personal taste. Just because an album is regarded as a classic, you don't have to rate it so.

My opinion and rip apart if you wish.

[RFNAPLES]

For the record, amateur Robert T. Jones Jr. won the U.S. Open four times, and amateurs John Goodman, Francis Ouimet, Jerome D. Travers, and Charles Evans Jr. each won it once. Robert T. Jones Jr also won the British Open three times and amateurs Harold Hilton won it twice while John Ball Jr won it once. My analogy passes.

You said "because when thinking of the greatest in anything, they always discuss professionals." Really, what about all the amateur Olympic athletes? Your statement fails.

The Kinks and The Beatles are both among my favorites but only The Beatles appear on my greatest albums chart. Favorite is not synonymous with greatest. My analogy passes.

Greatness is determined with hindsight. It should not be a spur of the moment decision; that is a fad or an impulse. Pet Rocks were favorite gifts of givers (if not receivers), they were not the greatest gifts but merely a fad. Critical acclaim and commercial success are partial determinants of greatness.

BTW, Kleenex is not a generic name either.
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Top 100 Greatest Music Albums by RFNAPLES
Bubbling Under The Top 100 Greatest Mus...y RFNAPLES

[RFNAPLES]